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SE: G’day. Welcome to the very first episode of the Cold-blooded Contributions podcast which is part of the Morelia Python Radio network. We are your hosts, the Eippers. I’m Scott Eipper, with me is my wife Tie. This podcast will bring to you people in the hobby that have made an impact on us – be it creatively, with information exchange, improving our husbandry, or just people we can learn from.
TE: With us today, we also have Eric. Thanks so much for coming Eric, we felt a bit awkward interviewing ourselves. So the balls in your court!
EB: All good, O.K, I’m excited about this. So, let’s start with you Tie. What got you started into reptiles?
TE: I got a Blue-tongue at about the age of 4, fell in love with it and it went from there. Didn’t keep much as a teenager, and then early 20’s started to keep solidly then. I just found that blue-tongue fascinating when I was younger and quite the easy pet to look after and it went from there.
EB: O.K. What about you Scott?
SE: Oh look, like most kids I never grew up.
TE: I can testify to that.
SE: I was running around the scrub chasing lizards and anything else I could find. At an extremely young age I was catching lizards and then had my first encounter with snake at an extremely young age, was told not to touch it, but it didn’t quite work out that way. So, I’d go out chasing lizards and snakes and then my father would go ahead and release those said animals. It just never stopped. I’ve had animals since I was 4 years of age.
EB: O.K. Now I know you guys both write books and I know you have a lot of books, so tell me, was there a book that you were into as a kid where you would stare at a particular species that just blew your mind, that one day you would have to either see in the wild or keep in captivity.
TE: I’m 5 years older than Scott, I don’t know your age Eric, but I assume that I’m older than you too because I appear to be older than everybody! When I was a kid in N.S.W. we had these project books that you could get from the news agents. And it had Australian reptiles in it. It was the frilled-neck lizard actually in that little, I don’t know, it was like a little 20 odd page….
EB: Ok it was like a 20 page book, what was and it was the frilly that was in there. What was it about the frilly?
TE: There were pages you could colour in a bit, it had a bit of information in it, but then it had like, I don’t know 4-6 pages I think from memory that were nothing but stickers and you put the sticker on the page suitable obviously. Yeah I don’t know what it was about the frilly, it just, I don’t know, it looked cool at the time? I don’t know. But that was probably one of my first reptile books that made me want to learn more about them.
EB: O.K. What about you Scott?
SE: Well the first book that I got that was sort of dedicated to Australian stuff was a book by Graham Gow called Australia’s Dangerous Snakes. I still have that book and it’s this book that just about dangerous snakes, it’s got plates at the back of it. All of the pages on that book will open up and stay flat. That’s how many times I’ve looked at that book right. The books spine is completely poleaxed and stuffed. I mean I poured over that book, and I remember as a kid drawing the pictures that I could see and all that sort of stuff and just absolutely loving it and for me: Red-belly black snakes. Just enamoured by that black colouration with the bright red sides and I suppose people saying “Oh yeah, they’re not that bad, they don’t really want to kill people and this that and the other, you know, just an incredible animal. To this day it’s a species we keep, I’ve kept them for 30+ years now and absolutely love them. They are a beautiful animal to look after, they are a great animal to work with and an amazing animal to see in the wild. We see them in wild quite regularly around our place which is pretty awesome.
EB: Very cool, very cool. O.K. I know you guys, well, I’ll speak for the Americans. We look at you guys as like I don’t know. What’s the word?
TE: Weird?
EB: Superheroes? I don’t know. We look at you, both you guys – the books that you’ve written, the animals you keep, your level of professionalism when it comes to reptiles, both in the wild and in captivity. How did that become to where you are today? How did the two of you end up where you are today?
SE: Certainly not doing podcasts! Basically as we’ve shown today, the amount of professionalism we have when it comes to trying to do a podcast…… This is probably something that is only a step above a train wreck.
TE: Hey, we can all say the word creativity….
SE: Yeah exactly. Exactly right. And you know what, we’re giving this a crack. This is something that is well and truly out of our comfort zone. I mean, I don’t have too many dramas being an interviewee, because I like talking and I don’t have an issue with it.
TE: Anyone that knows you well, knows that is true.
SE: Of course. But I suppose getting back to the books side of things right, for both of us I think it’s’ dissemination of information and giving back to a community that’s given us so much over the years too. I was a member of the VHS (Victorian Herpetological Society) from when I was 8 years old. I only sort of stopped being a member of the VHS when I moved to Queensland. The VHS and the whole herp society type scene – its not restricted to the VHS – it’s all societies for the most part, they foster the information exchange, but they also help young people and they help other people coming into the hobby and they help sort of curve their enthusiasm in such ways that not only they become successful within the hobby, but then also make sure not too many animals die too I suppose. For me it started with writing little information papers and things like that for the newsletters in various herpetological societies about how to look after various species and stuff like that and then the opportunity came along to do a book on venomous snake husbandry and frog husbandry as well at the same time. That’s sort of what kicked us off in regard to the writing books side of things. Which is obviously a much bigger thing than writing articles for magazines and stuff like that. You don’t quite realise how much bigger it is until you actually give it a crack.
TE: For me, basically Scott went “We should do this together.” There’s no great story behind it for me, I was trying to think of something really cool while Scott was banging on and I couldn’t, so I had to be honest. I had reptiles before I met Scott.
EB: Ohhh O.K.
TE: When he moved up from Melbourne to be with us, I had, I can’t remember, I had lizards, snakes, turtle, I didn’t have venomous before Scott, so yeah it was quite the menagerie by the time Scott moved in.
EB: So is it fair to say that lizards are your favourite? Are you a lizard person? Are you a snake person? Or just reptiles?
TE: I don’t know, I think you go through stages where for a few years you may be into snakes and then maybe lizards or monitors…. Probably snakes more so for me. And Scott would definitely be snakes.
SE: For me, its snakes. In particular I like the stuff that people don’t know so much about more so than anything else. I’m intrigued by things that we don’t know a lot about.
TE: Blind snakes.
SE: Yes, Blind snakes. Blind snakes are really interesting. So, Blindness, Sea Snakes, some of the lesser-known elapids. They’re the sort of stuff that really gets me going. That’s the stuff that’s interesting to me. I’ve always got a soft spot for elapids as well. They’re some of the most misunderstood animals out there that people think are out there to get people and all the rest of it and that’s not the case.
TE: I think too, you own animals and then maybe one or two will take your fancy that you didn’t think actually would.
SE: Yep.
EB: Yep. What was that species for you?
TE: For me it was the Alpine Blotchies. Absolutely love the Alpine Blotchies.
EB: O.K. They were the ones you keep outside, right?
TE: Yeah.
EB: Very cool.
TE: I’ve always been more into Adders, and then when we got them, I was like ooohhhh.
SE: For me the one thing that has been a surprising one for me that I actually like is the imbricata. As much as I give shit to python people and python keepers and stuff like that, the imbricata are really interesting animals to look after.
TE: Are you just saying that coz Eric’s here?
SE: No, No.
TE: Rub it in…….
SE: My favourite python, because of Cuddles is an Olive python. He’s over 40years old. I can’t really go past him as a favourite snake for us, well for me personally. And I know that when he eventually dies, I’m going to be a fucking mess. But at the same time, what’s the unusual one I like? Or what I think is unusual for me to like? It’s imbricata.
EB: It didn’t have anything to do with me googling over it when I was at your place did it?
TE: Honestly, I can’t believe you didn’t get bitten.
SE: It really didn’t hey. For me – it’s something that aren’t often kept in the eastern side of Australia. Western Australia had laws that prevented animals coming out of their state for a very long time and that didn’t change until the late ‘90’s. So imbricata was sort of really hard to obtain, so it was one of those species or subspecies at the time that people were like “well we don’t really see them too much and they look a bit like a coastal for the most part but not quite”
TE: So, you’ve admitted to this, can you now turn around and go “I’m sorry for giving you shit babe, they were worth it” Like publicly.
SE: Sorry for giving you shit.
EB: Oh wait, they were Tie’s idea?
SE: Yeah, she wanted them.
TE: Yeah, it was. And he’s like “What the fuck do you want them for?” His exact words.
SE: Another fucking carpet python. Bloody crapets. Look, it is what it is. You get to look and raise these things and you learn that they are actually really interesting snakes and they don’t behave exactly the same as other carpet pythons. They sort of behave more like Inland carpets than anything else, which I suppose makes sense because of where they live and all the rest of it. But they are a very cool Carpet python.
TE: And back to the comment about you Eric, it is actually really cool when you keep something for so long seeing someone see it for the first time and the joy on their face and the excitement and we won’t go into your level of excitement….. But yeah, it’s really cool, it sort of renews you a bit because you’re so used to your own animals.
EB: So is this what led you guys to be involved in the education side of reptiles and showing people that they’re not these scary animals that everybody thinks they are?
SE: I started doing demos when I was in my early teens. Working with other demonstrators and stuff like that, so I never sort of stopped that and it was all about – that exchange of information and getting rid of the myths that are around and trying to prevent people from killing these beautiful animals. If you understand, or learn a little bit about animals, you can understand that they’re not out to kill you. A Tiger snake might be venomous, or a Brown snake might be venomous, but they don’t come chasing you. They are not out there to try and hurt people. Realistically if you look into it, you can see that these animals are out there and they provide a really good service to the community by eliminating pest species such as rodents and stuff like that, which saves the agricultural industry literally millions of dollars a year in lost grain production. If you can explain to people that these animals aren’t out to get them and they have a benefit to people, not only in them being a financial improvement in things but also they are a species that are on our planet. They’re here and they have as much right to be here as we do. As a species we should be a little bit more intelligent about things like that.
EB: Any thoughts for you Tie?
TE: It’s a special sort of licence here. I didn’t have that licence before Scott moved in. So, when Scott moved in, that’s when I started doing demos. Begrudgingly. Because you know I’m such a people person.
EB: Are you the behind-the-scenes type of person care of the animals?
TE: The glorified shit cleaner….
SE: Wouldn’t say your glorified!
TE: Oooooohhhhhhh. So ballsy in front of others! Scott does have a 9-5 job. Doing the demos, and certainly writing books does not pay the bills – and everyone’s seen Scott’s book collection. That certainly doesn’t afford that. So I work from home with the business, whether it’s the animals, the website – whatever, and Scott does his 9-5 job and then comes home and pitches in afterwards.
EB: O.K.
TE: That’s why he looks a lot older than his age, he’s knackered.
EB: Shots gone all around!!
SE: What’s your excuse?
EB: For someone outside of Australia, is there a species – you know how much I love Australian species – is there a species that you guys love that’s outside Australia?
TE: Eastern Diamondback.
SE: For me, it’s a tossup. There's half a dozen things that I’d love to see in the wild.
EB: What’s the top one?
SE: Lachesis melanocephala mate. The black-headed Bushmaster from Costa Rica. That’s right up there. I’d also love to see Gila Monsters as well. And I’d like to see Cobras. Cobras in the wild. We spent a little bit of time in Bali early last year and we got to see Tree Vipers and Sea Kraits and Draco and all sorts of really cool animals which was amazing. There's been a few things that we’ve liked that we’ve seen, but there’s a lot of things that we like that we haven’t seen.
EB: Gotcha.
TE: That little thing called time and money.
EB: I always find it an interesting perspective, sort of similar to what you were saying earlier like you know you have something that you see all the time, you sort of take it for granted to a certain extent, but there’s a certain magic when you go somewhere that you’ve never been and everything is new and exciting. Is there anywhere else that you would like to travel?
TE: Oh that list is huge! Scott needs to do overtime!
EB: So is your go to Georgia to see Eastern Diamondbacks?
TE: We sort of not made a travel plan, but Scott said that we’re definitely going home for my 50th – which is coming up much faster than money’s allowing. We figured if we did a cheaper place to travel one year and then a more expensive place the next year, and we’re coming back, well were not coming back as we didn’t get there in the first place, but we are coming to the States in 2026. Europe 2025 and America 2026. They are two expensive ones, we’ve also got a couple of books on the go as well, so its sort of where can we go that will help photo wise and data wise with the books that we’ve got on the desktop so we can use our own photos and data.
EB: These are books you guys have planned?
SE: They aren’t planned, they are happening. They are being written at the moment.
EB: Very nice.
SE: So, there’s some spots in Australia too, for that project and then there’s other stuff that we need to go further afield for without giving too much away. The US – I’d really like to drive across the US, I think that’s probably the best way to see a lot of stuff. Potentially flying up to the northeast of the US and then driving to the south west. So go from north to south. From Florida basically across to the southern part of California. Hire a car and basically drive from one side of the country to the other.
TE: So Keith and Theresa are in for a nice big road trip, is that what you are saying?
SE: Yes! It would be good to get up to the north east and go and see Timber Rattlesnakes.
EB: I know a spot.
SE: Timber Rattlers. And then move down to Florida, and then from Florida through to Georgia and Arizona and Texas and then into California and give it a crack, see a few animals and see how we go.
EB: What’s the goal for the podcast? What do you hope to come out of it?
TE: Well, we own an online bookshop. If I had my way, and we were loaded, we would have a store front. I just love the thought of a bookshop. We focus only on reptile books. We’d have big comfy armchairs, coffee machine….. You know what I mean. A place to chill, to sit down and relax. And with that I wanted to do author nights. We’re in Logan. It’s pretty far away from a lot of keepers. It just wouldn’t happen. It’s not viable. So, we thought if we did a podcast it would be an up to date, technical version of an author night. So that’s where the idea for the podcast came from.
SE: I think as well, on top of that, it evolved into not only talking to other authors, but talking to all people that are visionaries and creationists I suppose, for lack of a better term, within the hobby. So that can mean people that are doing artwork and stuff like that, people who are producing podcasts, documentaries, anything that ……
TE: Heads up Eric, you’re coming back!
SE: Yeah, we’ll switch the tables around when we get a little more confident. I suppose the whole idea is just to try and find from other people what inspires them and why they use reptiles as a conduit for their creativity. There’s been that whole interview thing on people keeping animals and that sort of stuff. That’s not to say we are not going to touch on that side of things. At the end of the day, it’s part of our lives and probably a fairly large part of our guests lives as well. The idea of this podcast isn’t specifically around the keeping of reptiles, its more about the people around the reptiles. Also too, what people seem to misunderstand, most of the time when it comes to doing this is it’s two people in this relationship who are working with these animals. In your case Dory as obviously been impacted by reptiles in her life. Rightly or wrongly, it is what it is.
TE: She hasn’t seen his imbricata excitement though.
SE: I suppose that’s the other part too. Sometimes people are more focused on one person in a family, and we want to give that opportunity for people to come on and give their experiences with reptiles and amphibians and give their impact.
EB: That’s awesome, O.K. Very cool.
SE: We tried to find something that’s not quite the same as what is already out there.
EB: I think just the fact that you two are married, just the fact that you two are in Australia, I think there is a severe lack of Australian focused podcasts from people in Australia, to hear the perspective. The only thing that happens is either American podcasts or having Australian breeders and keepers and people that are herpers – and sometimes we get it wrong. Remember me in the early days of Carpets?
TE: I think too though, it’s not that easy. Listening to it is one side of it. As you would well know, behind the scenes, even to do an interview – you might set aside an hour. But you talk for three or four usually because you don’t get to catch up with that person on a regular basis. It’s also preparing for it etc. It’s not an easy or a quick undertaking. I think time is just going faster for everyone too. Maybe people don’t have the want, I can assure you this is me stepping out of my comfort zone! Maybe they don’t have the time, or the know how either. You’ve helped us greatly.
SE: Maybe one of the reasons it takes so long is because the person who is trying to do the intro fucks it up four times?
EB: It’s definitely not as easy as people think, for sure.
SE: No, it’s not. I suppose while this episode has mainly been about me and Tie, I do have a question for you Eric, without notice, but why podcasts for you? What was the reason for you to stand in your bathroom and talk at yourself in the mirror?
TE: He’s never gonna let you live that down.
SE: in fairness, it’s not something that he hasn’t thrown out there before.
EB: Yeah, I say it all the time.
SE: Was it VK or something like that? There was an old reptile podcast I think I vaguely remember you saying had an influence on you. Did you think right, I can either do it better or was it a way of marketing EB Morelia?
EB: No. EB Morelia didn’t even exist at the time, really. I felt that everybody in America was focused on Ball pythons. I stumbled upon an interview that the reptile radio had done. They talked mostly about ball pythons, but one time they had a guy on talking about carpet pythons. I don’t know what it was about that species or complex, I just can’t break away from them. I don’t know what it is. There's just something about those species for me and I felt that the level of knowledge here was next to nothing. They were just aggressive…… There were all these misconceptions. So, I figured rather than ball pythons, I’m gonna do something that focuses on carpet pythons. That’s sorta where it came from. I guess if I was gonna say, if I’m being honest it was probably a way for me to talk to people that I probably normally wouldn’t get to talk to and learn from them.
TE: Yep, completely get that.
SE: But has it worked for you?
TE: Would you like me to kick him?
EB: It’s one of those things. As I go along, and you think you know a lot about them, and then you realise just how much you don’t know. And that’s the fun of it. I love learning about them, I love seeing them in the wild, I love keeping them, I love breeding them, I love talking about them as everybody probably knows who listens to Morelia Python. I don’t know what it is about that species of snakes that fascinates me. I’ve even tried other pythons, but they don’t do it for me. I end up giving them to Owen.
SE: I happen to have been there when you saw your first imbricata and your first wild carpet python. Both times.
EB: Yeah.
SE: The face that you had when you saw that carpet in the scrub out at Boondal Wetlands, you were like “OH MY GOD, I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS IS A CARPET PYTHON”. It was a half reasonable looking carpet, but it wasn’t anything to really write home about.
EB: Naaaahhhhh.
SE: But to you at the time, that was the most beautiful carpet python you had ever seen in your life. You were sooooo happy. I was “its just a carpet python”. I was looking at the second edition of the More Complete Carpet and here’s that carpet python in the book, and it meant something to you. It’s something that we all want to try and capture each time and I think it’s one of the reasons we like reptiles. We are chasing that fucking drug – that high. To try to get that again each time, but you never really seem to the same way. You see other things as well. For me the other week, I was down in Sydney, and I walked around a rock face and I was out looking for Diamond pythons. I’ve seen Diamonds before in the wild, but I’d never seen them basking during the day. So, I went to this spot where they apparently bask during the day. I remember coming around this rock face, and as I came round the rock face, I looked across. Here is this Diamond stretched out across a tree branch. 40-50 ft up in the air, there’s literally a waterfall behind it, and I’m like “Oh my god, this is incredible”.
TE: You were actually on the phone to me, and you started to say “Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I gotta go, I gotta go, I gotta go.” He was soooooo excitable. I was like “Wow. It’s a carpet”
SE: For a fucking carpet python.
TE: He doesn’t get that excited at Christmas.
SE: Or even seeing a new book! For me, they are the things that you chase. The last time that I was like that was when I was walking along a beach in Bali and I looked down and in between these two boulders there’s a sea krait cruising through. “OH MY GOD” You just get soooo excited.
TE: Wouldn’t it have been the viper in Germany? I think that overtook everything.
SE: Yeah, that was pretty good. That was Holland, but anyway. From my point of view too though, I take photos, so it’s almost like hunting. People have their trophy which they hang on a wall, and more power to you, if that’s what you like to do, that’s great. For me, I like taking photos and I see those photos as my trophies so to speak. Getting to see those photos in print elsewhere and stuff like that as well makes you think “Hey, I remember that” and it takes you straight back to that time, that day. I looked at that photo of that carpet that I got with you, and it wasn’t something for me, it was an average carpet python, for me it was pretty uneventful. I don’t think I even bothered taking photos of it as I recall. But I remember looking at that photo of that snake, and that photo took me straight back to that day in Boondal wetlands with yourself and Rob and Chris. It was the three of you guys and just seeing how happy you guys were. That then takes me back to walking through when we were looking at skinks and stuff that end up being food for juvenile carpet pythons. It takes you right back to that particular time. For me the creative side of this, taking photos and stuff like that. Inseminating that information and then being able to relate that back to memories as opposed to forgetting about the hours it takes to take a photo, getting smashed by ticks and leeches, fucking rain, sleeping poorly, hurting your back and hurting your elbows and all that. You forget all that when you see the picture.
EB: Yeah, 100%. That was the first time we meet you. We’d spoken plenty of times before that. To just go out and go “ooohhh look, carpet” – I’m like zoooooommmmm….. Straight across.
SE: It was like Jesus walking across water, watching you go across there.
EB: 100%
TE: I’m wishing there was water in the backyard when he saw the imbricata if that’s what happened.
SE: Eric was so excited, and then you can’t help to not be excited as well. When you see someone like that you feed off that energy.
TE: Yeah, definitely.
SE: Your like, how good is this for somebody to have seen these things.
EB: I don’t know about you guys, but I think that its important, what I’ve learned doing the podcast we shouldn’t be, I know your taking shots at crapets and all, it’s all in fun, I get it, but you shouldn’t be ….. I don’t want to say ashamed as that’s not the right word, but if that’s what you love, that’s what you love. You know what I mean? You should just embrace it. For years I was like “Maybe I should try this or should try that”.
SE: Are you saying that Owen should just come out and say that he loves sasquatch?
EB: Yeah, exactly! You just do what you love.
SE: I think in some ways, this is what this podcast is all about. We are wanting people to talk about their passions of creativity. You can’t produce the artwork that people produce and not love doing that art.
TE: Or the data that they produce. Sorry, the dog is on my lap.
SE: The horse.
TE: Maybe being ashamed of loving a gecko because it’s not venomous – theres no need for it.
SE: I think people have got to remember that just because you don’t necessarily love that particular species doesn’t mean to say that other people don’t find them absolutely enigmatic and enamouring.
TE: if everyone like the same thing, it would be bloody boring.
EB: Yeah, 100% Most of the people that are in my inner circle are not into what I’m into. Which is fun.
TE: You mean reptile wise, are we still talking about reptiles here?
EB: Yes!
TE: Lol, wide open there Eric!
SE: I remember talking to someone a lot of years ago about this, and they were saying that animals are like the great common denominators amongst their friends. The people that they remember are inadvertently their animals friends. People that they may not talk to for 10 or 15 years, and then the next thing they know they bump into each other or pick up the phone and it’s like they were speaking to them yesterday. Whereas it seems a lot of other people in our lives are almost transient if they are not an animal person. All righty, well I think that’s a wrap I suppose, a pretty good place to sum it up. Tie, did you have anything else you wanted to add?
TE: no. The dog’s pawing at me and he’s getting impatient, so I’m all good. He’s heavy.
SE: Eric, did you want to throw anything else out there before I do the sign off?
EB: Nah, I’m just excited that you guys are doing a podcast, and I can’t wait to hear what you do.
SE: Well, you’re going to be editing this shit……….
TE: We’ll get you saying creativity properly by probably about episode 24?
SE: Maybe if you’re lucky… So, what I would like to just sign off with is hope you all enjoyed this episode, we’re always keen for feedback, be gentle – it’s our first shitshow – it’s not the easiest thing to have a crack at I must admit! Any feedback would be great if you want to direct it to either me or Tie.
TE: If it’s bad, straight to Eric.
SE: Yeah, if it’s bad, go straight to Eric! We’d like to give a shout out to the other podcasts in the Morelia Python Radio stable. At this point in time, I realise I really should of written them down. All right, Tie do you want to throw that last line you cooked up?
TE: Remember guys, always trust your creativity, it’s intelligence having fun. Thanks for having us.
SE: Thank you.
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